EXCLUSIVE
By Phil Mac Giolla Bhain
A controversial Scottish churchman tonight slammed the well-loved Irish ballad “The Field of Athenrye” as “ vile, vicious and racist” and compared the Pete St. John ballad to the infamous “Famine Song.”
Reverend Stuart MacQuarrie is part of the chaplaincy service at Glasgow University and he made the outburst on a BBC Radio 4 debate on Celtic Rangers rivalry on St.Stephen’s day night.
Reverend MacQuarrie is no stranger to Old Firm controversy.
In a 2007 book “Its Rangers for me” Rev Stuart McQuarrie, a Church of Scotland minister and chaplain to Glasgow University, accuses Celtic fans of holding “romantic views about Ireland.”
He added: “They see themselves whenever possible as victims and resent their victim status, yet at the same time they wallow in it.”
“Part of this flawed psychological state is that they cannot accept that they might have made any contribution to their misfortunes, but seek rather to blame someone else for it, thereby deepening their sense of shared tribal grievance against the rest of society.”
When contacted about his statement about the field of Athenrye Rev MacQuarrie stated:
“The song with the reference to rebelling against the Crown is anti British and if you consider the British people a race it is in that context racist.”
Pete St.John, the man who wrote “The Fields of Athenrye” said:
“At this stage I am long past the ranting of people like McQuarrie. I have heard all that world-weary rubbish for years! This is just the sad rehashing of one man’s self-hatred! It is also very sad that football games are now war zones and sport boot camps for prolonging bigotry. And songs as wounds that never seem to heal songs should be magic carpets! My Fields is and always was just a sad song from a horrible moment in Irish history. Nothing more and nothing less!”
william
Max, you are a lunatic, but I already knew that. Your support of terrorist organisations who bomb and kill innocent civilians is also of no suprise, Does you support of the PLO also extend to other middle east terrorist organisations.
Anyway, Phil, will confirm that I have used only one e-mail address, I also have an e-mail from Phil explaining that he blocked and removed several threatening and personal attacks on me.
SO GO AHEAD WITH YOUR LATEST THREAT. If you consider any of my posts to be sectarian or racist then also proceed, All my posts are factual and can be seen in print in various historical publications. If I mention the spanish inquistion does that mean I am anti catholic ? If I mention the facts about Pope Pious and many other popes who had incestial relationships or if I dare to mention numerous cases of child abuse within the RC church, does that make me anti catholic ? If I mention the despicable acts of the Nazi’s does that make me anti German. If I quote Adolph himself and say he structured the Nazi’s on the order of the Jesuits, does that make me anti catholic ? If I tell people the facts that Sean Russell went to conspire with the Nazi’s and died aboard a german u boat returning to Dublin, does that make me anti Irish. If I condemn Devaler’s attitude to the death of Hilter, does that make me anti Irish, If I comment on the £200,000 of ROI government money that found its way to the PIRA coffers and subsidised their 1st arms shipment, that lead to over 30 years of terror and the murder of thousands of innocent people, does that make me anti Irish, If anyone is a racist and a bigot then it is you Max, Bigots in general, are usually ignorant of facts and intollerant of others, you fit that bill rather well
February 14, 2009 at 12:08 pm
max
God bless the brave PLO, My only saddness is that one of the greatest leaders the world has ever seen, and Nobel Peace prize winner Mohammed Abdel-Raouf Arafat As Qudwa al-Hussaeini didn’t live to see the free state of Palastine.
February 12, 2009 at 10:02 pm
max
To use your own patronising terminology ´william´, I’ll explain this very slowly.
Whatever you have to say always has an anti Irish, anti Catholic slant.
It’s known as sectarianism and racism.
You are allowed your opinion but racial & religious hatred is a crime.
We can go round in circles concerning Pope Pious and King Edward and WWII, fair enough, that´s opinion, although I feel it a bit tiresome now.
I’d like to explain to you ‘william’, or whatever your real name is, the difference detween slander and libel.
Slander is the spoken word, someone spreading bad stories about you that are untrue, and is notoriously hard to prove, most of the evidence being ‘hearsay’.
Libel on the other hand is, the written word, which means that someone was stupid enough to put their lies in print and is so much easier to prove, and can be very costly.
I know that every post made on Phils site must have a valid E-Mail address, so unless you’ve been posting from different Internet cafés (which I very much think is beyond your meagre imagination) every post you post on here is tracable right back to your PC, you may think you can hide behind your keyboard and say what you like, but I’m about to show you how wrong you are.
You made a statement (in print, libel) that I threatened to `break your fingers` Ive asked several times for you to say where and when I said this, you refuse to aknowledge my request.
Now this is where you have to pay attention ´william´, I have a friend who I´ve worked closely with for some time and he´s a lawyer for the biggest union in holland, the FNV, and he specialises in cases concerning racial and religious discrimination in the workplace, and I know he would have no problems in doing me a personal favour, although with a wry smile, concerning this matter.
To spell it out for you, he only has to write a letter or two to start legal proceedings against you concerning your libelous statements about myself concerning threats you say I made towards you.
To explain it further ´william´ you will then have to find and pay a lawyer to defend yourself.
Your posts on this site will be key to the proceedings, and I think racial and religious hatred will play a big part in any action taken.
Anyone reading your hateful anti Catholic-Irish rhetoric will recognise it within reading a few lines of your posts.
So here´s the deal, you give me a full and unreserved apology for saying, I threatened to `break your fingers`, or, and please take this deadly serious, I will start legal proceedings.
Which means, you will be proven guilty, )proven by your own hand’ you will then have to pay me damages, pay for your own lawyer, court costs, and although my friend might be willing to do me a favour, his costs and expenses )especially if he has to pop over to britian a couple of times’ will be a heafty sum.
I strongly advise you to take this information seriously.
February 12, 2009 at 2:25 pm
william
Max I will excuse your crass stupidity and I will post what I have already posted several times.
Other christian churches were not responsible for the Nazi’s coming to power— The RC church and futher pope pious XII were
Edward VII was not responsible for the Nazi’s coming to power either and neither were the other neutral scandinavian countries or their churches.
None of these countries conspired with the Nazi’s,,, The ROI did, What about the blue shirts in Ireland Max ?
What about Devilera and Sean Russell ?
You seem very supportive of the Israeli people and that is admirable, how does that go down at Parkhead with the PLO terrorist supporters ?
As for Frankie boy, what is it that you dispute Frank, There are historical facts to prove everything I have written, post your e-mail and I will supply you with links, your satirical response is comical but serves no purpose
February 11, 2009 at 6:53 pm
william
I see I have finally got to Phil and he is now editing my posts and writting rubbish. I am fully aware that Oskar Schindler was buried in Mount Olive, I seen the film when it was first out and also read the book called Schindler’s Ark, how childish Phil and the sign of a beaten and exposed Liar. Job Done. I will be contacting the web provider and making an official complaint
February 11, 2009 at 6:34 pm
Frank Devine
I do not have the time or inclination to remember ‘william’ or his crazed posts; although when I do I always say to myself I will have a quick peep at what hes been blabbering about.
One or two things always seem to be a feature of his meanderings, catholicism, the nature of Nazism, and anything to do with Ireland and/or Celtic Football Club.
I did not know that one had to be a practising catholic to be a member of the ‘catholic nazi party’; thank you for informing me of this fact, which has escaped the minds and words of the greatest historians produced since 1945, for this I truly thank you ‘william’.
Thank you for informing me that the catholic church is composed of child abusers, I knew that some people in the church had abused their position in relation to vulnerable people – but I thought this was the same with all churches, institutions such as the Salvational Army, Boys Brigade, Scouts (even, whisper it, non catholic scouting organisations, orphanages ran by all religious organisations and mental and psychiatric institutions. Thank you for putting me right on this point ‘william’.
I thought it was the same with the Nazi Party in Germany; while I know many of the leadership were lapsed catholics I was sure that witin it’s ranks were all religious demoninations – I was wrong ‘william’ was right again.
As for Celtic Football Club, here was I thinking I was supporting a fine institution with an illustrious history, at least thats what the historianss were telling me, then I find out that they are simply a bunch of nazi supporting child abusers.
Now that I have accepted ‘williams’ assertions in their entirity (despite the fact he has not provided one shred of evidence to back them up), I hope he will accept his victory and go back to molesting his goat X
February 10, 2009 at 9:30 am
Max
Btw, I’m still waiting on what the Protestand, Methodists, Lutherians….and other Christian sects were doing in Germany, Holland, France, belgium…etc, and maybe more importantly the churches in the neutral countries, other than The Republic of Ireland while Adolf was coming to power and indeed once he was.
So when you’re ready!
AND ‘broken fingers’?
Thread and post number please.
I wouldn’t want to have to explain the legalities of false accusation, especially in print william!
February 9, 2009 at 4:33 pm
max
I speak from my own general knowledge, and yes there he does lay in a Catholic cemetery on the mount.
I stand corrected.
He is one of a very few.
To verify this information I read the same Wiki page you did.
What you, conveniently, failed to add was that he was honoured in 1963 at Israels Yad Vashem memorial to the victims of The Holocaust, as “One of the Rightious amoung the nations”, “A Rightious Gentile”, awarded to non Jews who helped save Jews during The Holocaust AT GREAT PERSONAL RISK.
In the 60s he was also awarded the German Federal Cross of Honour and The Papal Order of St Sylvester.
The point william is that when it comes to talking about SIR Oswald Mosley, you don’t want to know.
When it comes to Edward VIII king of England, and head of the church of England and his open fascism and admiration of adolf and the Nazis, you start infantile name calling and for some reason repeat for the 100th time that a Celtic supporter glassed someone once.
Yet when we talk about a real war hero you choose to call him a Nazi profiteer who USED the Jews for his own financial benefit for no other reason than he was a Catholic.
Truly pitiful.
February 9, 2009 at 4:21 pm
william
Max once again you are wrong oskar schindler is buried in the catholic cemetery at Mount olive.He was a member of the Nazi party therefore was a Nazi.Why you have to bring up the fact he was roman catholic is beyond me.Thought you sellick supporters knew your history.Are you sure you read the book?
February 9, 2009 at 3:19 pm
max
Mount Olive is a cemetery in Israel for Jews, as one might expect.
Only Jews can be buried there, and it is the highest honour for any Jew to be buried on Mount Olive.
Mount Olive is the resting place of Jewish heads of State, Jewish religious leaders, and generally people of the highest standing in Israel.
Only one exeption has ever been made and that was for, Christian, Oskar Schindler.
Oskar Schindler is considered a national hero in Isreal, and his grave is one of the most visited places in the cemetery.
Oskar saved the life of thousands of jews, puting his own life on the line many times in the process.
There are 10s of thousands of jews alive today that are direct descendants from the folk Oskar saved.
I know most people have seen the movie, but if you’ve not already read the book ‘Schindlers Arc’ (I know MOST of you will have) I recomend that you do.
For anyone to suggest that Oskar was a Nazi and a profiteer because, for one reason and one reason only, he was a Catholic, is despicable, venomous and malicious in a really vile and disturbing way.
Again I would suggest anyone who harboured such thoughts should go to Israel and visit Mount Olive and go to Oskar Schindlers graveside and tell each of the thousands of visitors the grave recieves every year, that the man buried their was a Nazi.
Please.
February 9, 2009 at 2:18 pm
max
I can’t remember or read a post were I accused you of threatening anyone william.
It may, and obviously does, surprise you, but every post on here is not directed at your delusionary selfimportant neurotic paranoid sad self.
I’m still waiting for the thread and number of post were you were threatened with having your “fingers broken”!
Or is it more of your usual, make it up as you go along, pish and wind?
February 9, 2009 at 12:00 pm
william
You really are a disturbed individual Max, Schindler was a business man who profitted from the situation and he supplied the Nazi’s with weapons. So therefore he aided the Nazi’s in their war efforts. The person buried in Mount Olive is Oskar Schindler a GERMAN industrialist who in using free Jewish Labour provided by the Nazi’s man money out of their suffering but also saved their lives, You really need to desist from name calling, you also accuse me of veiled threats which are all in your depraved warped bigotted mind
February 8, 2009 at 7:08 pm
william
I believe you are the one who does the name calling Max. I will try again and see if you understand this, Most of the scandinaviam countries were neutral. The King was George V during WWII. Mossley did not represent the majority of British people who went to war with the Nazi’s. Ireland on the other hand conspired with the Nazi’s. The Roman Catholic Church assisted the Nazi’s in coming to power. Pope Pious XII was rather friendly with the top brass of the Third Reich and did nothing to stop the slaughter of Millions of innocent Jews. don’t forget the rat runs Max
February 8, 2009 at 6:55 pm
max
Ps. I have no interest in Edward VII and what his connection to this debate is, is anyones guess.
Considering he died in 1910 I fail to understand your ramblings.
February 7, 2009 at 6:21 pm
max
I would like you to tell me the thread and the number of the post where ANYONE threatend to “break your fingers”.
You still have not answered the questions.
The real craker is to call Oskar Schindler a Nazi!!! unbelievable!!!
There is only one non Jew buried on Mount Olive in Israel, can you name him.
PLEASE go there and tell everyone that the man buried there is a Nazi, PLEASE!
At least then we wouldn’t have to put up with your infantile, repetative banalities any more.
ANSWER THE FECKI’ QUESTIONS!
February 7, 2009 at 6:07 pm
max
Any answer will do!
Rearrangers supporters might be easily fobbed of with pish, wind and bluster, (dodgy dave’s proven that many times), but personally I prefer a direct answer to a direct question.
So?
Howabout it?
What exactly was the stance taken by the Christian sects, protestants, presbiterians, Methodists, lutherians….ets, in countries like Austria, France, Holland, Belgium, and Germeny itself, during the rise of Adolf and his nazi party?
We know for a fact that the 6th Baronet SIR Oswald Mosley, a man not only part of the brittish upper classes but with a royal knighthood, tryed very hard to get the british people to follow (follow) him into a fascist alliance with the Nazis, so not much to question there!
But I feel the implications of the King of England being overtly fascist and proud to be an admirer of Adolf and the Nazi party, and the fact that he was the head of the Church of England deserves some semblance of an answer.
Take your time, I can wait, but please try to answer the questions, infantile name calling just does not cover it and really shows you up as being exactly that, childish.
As for ‘irony’, william t, you really shouldn’t use a word unless you know what it means, it really reinforces what I said above and makes you look quite foolish.
February 7, 2009 at 5:55 pm
william
Max.
what threats are you refering to, I am the only one who has been threatened on here, Was it you who wanted to break my fingers ?
Oskar Schindler was born a RC, but had little time for religion and prefered drinking and gambling. He was a shrewd business man and used the Jewish people to work his Ammunition factory, A win/win situation. He won the contract because he was an RC and supported the Nazi’s.
If you require any further education, just let me know
February 7, 2009 at 5:40 pm
william
Max.
What point are you trying to make, People all over Europe sensed the threat of Hitler’s RC Nazi party, some tried to defuse the issue as no one wanted another great war, you appear to have a fixation with Edward VII, you aooear to have access to his beliefs that no one else has, May I remind you that GB went to war with and defeated the Nazi’s. whilst others colluded and cleared their route to power. Keep trying max, you amuse me, you are not the sharpest tool in the box for a campaigning journalist
February 7, 2009 at 5:17 pm
william t
Max you don’t do irony like most celtic supporters.
February 7, 2009 at 4:53 pm
max
Still no answers?
No! just veiled threts, typical.
Let me know ‘bob’ when you intend “haunting” phil “soon”, I’d really like to be there, I’ve never witnessed a haunting.
In the mean time though could you please, for the sake of debate, answer the issues stated above!
February 7, 2009 at 2:15 pm
max
In a bit of fairness to the Swiss, most of their dealings with Germany were on a banking/financial level and it’s well documented that there were a few minor battles and skirmishes between the swiss army and the Hun*.
*That would be of the German Nazi variety.
February 7, 2009 at 1:19 pm
Bob Groves
William you make some valid points, which the Republican fascists don’t want to hear.
In fact, most fascist leaders have one thing in common and that’s their devoutness to the Roman way of life.
Galtieri, Hitler, Mussolini, Franco etc etc, the list is endless. One just has to check the not so distant past, to see Ireland’s involvement in assisting the biggest killing machine known to man, in the 30′s and 40′s.
However I think Willian is doing a fine job in revealing the truth and it appears the regulars on here despise honesty and truthfulness.
Although one thing did cross my mind reading all of the above posts….. they all appear to have a similar style of writing.
Could be just me and my suspicious mind I suppose.
Toodle pip Phil, keep on writing the nonsense, it’ll come back to haunt you some day soon.
February 7, 2009 at 12:20 pm
max
Ps. I’m still waiting on someone answering the question I put forward in post ’107′, and if they could also address the implications of the head of the Church of England being , quite openly, a Nazi sympathizer, right up until he was convieniently dumped in 1936.
February 7, 2009 at 9:32 am
max
Neutral states during WWII-
The Vatican city free state, Sweden, Switzerland, Spain, Portugal, The Irish free state, Paraguay, Lichtenstein, Monaco, Andorra, Turkey, Nepal, Afghanistan, Yemen, Bhutan.
Countries who worked with the Axis-
Sweden, Switserland, spain and portugal.
In no hitorical document I can find are either The Irish free state or the Vatican City ever accused of “working with the Axis.
(maybe in the “Follow Follow book of historical and religious facts”!!)
As for my other post concerning where other Christian sects stood during the rise of Adolf a the following war, I thought it might be worth mentioning that King Edward VIII, who undisputably was a fascist and a great admirer of Adolf Hitler and the Nazis, and made no secret of it, was the head of The Church of England.
February 7, 2009 at 9:24 am
max
What religion was Oskar Schindler?
February 7, 2009 at 9:00 am
william
sorry to burst you bubble again Max, (It’s getting a bit of a habit) but the author of the book Hitlers pope was a Roman Catholic !
The Nazi party was controlled by RCs as was the facist Italian ruling party. Holland and most of the scandinavian countries were neutral during the war, and none of them conspired with Hitler to invade Britain, so what is your point.
Do not deflect away from the point, The Nazi’s were devout RCs, structured like the order of Jesuits, They came to power with the assistance of the main catholic political parties in Germany by the man who would later become Pope Pious XII, They signed a corduit with the Vatican. And the largest Christain Church in the world gave their blessing to the genocide of millions of innocent men women and children. Even after the war Pious refused to return orphaned jewish children to their living relatives and in fact baptised then roman catholics, lets also not forget the rat runs organised by the vatican,
February 6, 2009 at 2:00 pm
max
I would like to repeat a question that seems to have been conveniently ignored by certain posters.
I seem to be reading alot about the Catholic Church, The Pope and the vatican, obviously written by non Catholics with a similarly obvious anti Catholic, anti Irish preoccupation.
As non Catholics, maybe they could explain the stance that was being taken by the Protestant, Presbiterian, Lutherian, methodists….and any other Christian sect in Holland, France, Austria, scandanavia..etc, infact even Germany itself, during WWII.
I would be interested to know.
February 6, 2009 at 9:39 am
william
Frank.
I think my namesake above has answered your question. wriggle out of that one, are you also forgetting the blueshirt movement in Ireland ?
Maybe we can discuss the Limerick pogroms instigagated by anti semetic priest Father John Creagh
in November 2004 a jewish tombstones and synagouge were vandalised and painted with swastikas
February 5, 2009 at 6:03 pm
william
Frank,
so you claim that 43% of people in Northern Ireland want a united Ireland, Explain how you come to that conclusion, You assume, your asumptions are not a decent argument, How many people in the republic want a united ireland do you think ?
I have very little interest in the RC church, althought I have read several books which cover certain aspects of the RC church. What exactly is it you are looking for, what is your question relating too. If it is relating to the RC church and the Nazi’s, then I will gratefully furnish you with references, But start with a book written by a Roman Catholic, who was allowed access to vatican archives to gather info for the proposed canonisation of Pope Pious (Pacelli) He uncovered some staggering info, The book is called Hiltler’s Pope
February 5, 2009 at 3:40 pm
max
It amazes me that anyone who has no inclination or knowledge of the king of Englands well documented and self admitted Nazi sympathies, and himself admits that he knows “very little” about The British Union Of Fascists led by The 6th Baronet SIR Oswald Ernald Mosley (that’s 6th BARONET SIR OSWALD MOSLEY), should think himself qualified to speak about where sympathies lied throughout europe, from the Republic Of Ireland to the (freee state of the) Vatican, concerning the activities of fascists in Europe!
February 5, 2009 at 11:16 am
william torrance
Andrija Artukovic the nazi minster of the interior escaped to Ireland after the war helped by the vatican.The Irish government refuses to release the file of his time in Ireland.This man was responsible for one million deaths.The source is the History Channel Documentry Irelands Nazis.Is that an ok source for you the journalist is cathal o’shannon.There were more Nazis in Ireland as well.There is also in the documentry talk of Irelands anti-semitism during the war and after it.
February 5, 2009 at 11:12 am
Frank Devine
‘william’,
You don’t know who David Irving is, but it certainly looks like you have an irrational fixation with the RC Church in Ireland.
You claim the, as you term it, the ‘ROI’ don’t want bank robbing ‘murdering thugs and bombers’, yet the same ‘ROI’ harbour all these ‘pervert’ priests etc.
No, I’ve not asked 50% of the population of north eastern Ireland their political preferences, but I’m basing my assertions on opinion polls which regularly show anywhere between 43% to 47% vote for non unionist parties; which suggests they might not be too fond of the ‘UK’.
Now, back to my question which you continually decline to answer; name one serious political commentator or academic source that would back up any of your deluded arguments, just one?
February 5, 2009 at 5:58 am
william
Max my apologies for my mistake above, I wrote your name when I meant to address the post to you. maybe Phil will amend it.
Frank.
I really do not know who David Irving is, But I am aware of a certain Roman catholic bishop who claimed that gas chambers never existed and only 300,000 jews perished in Nazi camps. Are you crazy Frank, Do you really think 50% of Northern Ireland want home rule, have you asked each and everyone of them, a large amount of RCs in Northern Ireland vote unionist or SDLP, Do you think for a second that the ROI want the bank robbing murdering thugs and bombers. You really are so out of touch with reality
February 4, 2009 at 3:44 pm
Frank Devine
‘william’ I am asking you to provide one, any, academic source for anything you have posted here about any subject; by academic source I mean valid historical or politic documentation, written by a commentator acknowledged as such by his peers. Not internet search engine claptrap that has been posted by a deranged right wing lunatic.
No, I am referring to David Irving, the internationally renowned (I know, something of a misnomer) ‘holocaust denier’. Not David Ervine, the late, and lamented, leader of the tiny PUP in north eastern Ireland (ie the part temporarily occupied by Britain in which about 50% of the inhabitants dont wish to be ruled by Britain).
But methinks you, ‘william’ know fine well what ‘David Irving’ I was referring to.
February 4, 2009 at 11:38 am
max
“max says”???, I’ve heard the saying, “am I talking to myself”, but this is ludicrous (and strangely disturbing)!!!
But your right, who ever you are, those Swiss bastards have a lot to answer for!
February 4, 2009 at 10:15 am
max
Try and understand this Max, It is not difficult, after the horrors and sensless loss of life during The Great War, No one in Western Europe ever wanted to experience this again and efforts were made to avoid conflict.
I know very little about Mossley and would not even waste time researching a non enity. None of the people you listed above conspired with the nazi’s to invade Britain. None of the above cleared the path for the extermination of the jewish people.
other did, did’n't they Max
February 3, 2009 at 4:04 pm
max
Pps. George VI was a stuttering dullard who was the Ideal replacement, for the debauched, pseudo intellectual Fascist, womanising, alcoholic monarch he was replacing.
February 3, 2009 at 3:54 pm
max
Mosley never started his own party, ‘the Black shirts’, in Britian following the gospel according to Adolf?
Chamberlain was sent on more than two occassions by the british government, to ask Adolf it it would be OK if he left us alone.
King Eddie on the other hand was a self proclaimed advocate of everything the Nazis stood for. He made no secret of it, and as I said he and Adolf were good chums.
The fact that he was FORCED to abdicate in 1936 due to his ‘love’for an American divorcee was of course pure coincidence and had nothing whatsoever to do with the fact that he was a self proclaimed ‘Nazi lover’ at all, and as so could be more than a little embarrassing to a country going to war with the same!
Edward was uncerimoniously dumped on his arse as the Duke of Windsor and was shunted of to The Bahamas for the duration and NEVER held an official appointment afterwards, EVER!
Sorry about my typos in my earlier post, but the wee wifey wanted to talk to her friend.
Ps.
SIR Oswald Ernald MoSley
6th Baronet. B.U.F.,(British Union Of Fascists.
Edward The EIGHTH (VIII) (thet means 8th) later to be The Duke of Windsor, The commander in Chief of the BAHAMAS, later to disappear into oblivion and never to be spoken of again.
February 3, 2009 at 3:43 pm
william
My apologies for the mistake in the link above, but it easy to find, just search nazi collaborators in Ireland.
Anyway,
Frank.
I have told you before and I will try again, just tell me what you dispute and I will provide proof, Or have you searched it yourself and don t like the answers you found.
David Irving ? ? are you referring to the late David Ervine
February 3, 2009 at 2:12 pm
william
Max,
You are my dream come true, how long have you been intergrating with the community ?
The Monarch of GB during the war with the nazi’s was George VI. It is difficult to read your posts, maybe Phil could spell check them before publishing them, LOL
I think you will find that there had strong support in Ireland for Hitler from the IRA chief of staff, but don’t take my word for it
http://www.independant.ie/sf-eurohopeful-commemorates-nazi-collaborator-494321.html
I do not think mossley of chamberlain or Edward VII collaborated with the Nazi’s and plotted an invasion of Britain, others did
February 3, 2009 at 2:06 pm
Frank Devine
‘william’ crackerjack Ponsonby-Smyth is writing complete balderdash on this message board, and I, for one, am thinking seriously of refraining from replying to any of his posts from now on.
Perhaps if he could name one single academic source that would support anything he says I would feel differently, but, to my knowledge, and I really can’t be bothered reading all of his posts as I think he is a complete crackpot who is mentally deranged, he has never once sourced any of his lunatic assertions.
Just one academic source crazy horse, and by academic source I dont mean David Irving………..
February 3, 2009 at 11:16 am
max
That should of course read ‘politics’ and the the member of the royal family to which I refer was non other than the King himself Edward VIII, he became a wee bit of an embarrassment really didn’t he?
February 3, 2009 at 10:29 am
max
I think I covered the polotics of the day on ‘the fall of the house of murray thread
Sir Oawald Mosley. (I don’t think I have to expand on that one!)
Neville Chamberland acting in full agreement with the british government and of course the royal family.
Which of course was a BIG admirer of old Adolf (and made no secret of it) and both were in fact quite chummy!
February 3, 2009 at 10:02 am
william
I have responded to Ryan’s unfactual rant on The fall of the house of Murray thread, looks like I am not afforded the same democratic rights as Ryan
February 2, 2009 at 2:29 pm
Ryan
What the good folk on here should always bear in mind that, when it comes to reading or responding to the inane, deluded, loonball rants from a certain poster (no names necessary), this is the very same individual who has posted a comment regarding his beloved bnp only being interested in recruiting ‘true patriots’.
These will be the same ‘true patriots’ who revel in Holocaust denial and have close links with a certain combat 18 (and we all know how they got their name).
This individual tries to tie Ireland and the Vatican / RC church with the most tenuous links to Nazism and Germany during WWII and then call this shower ‘true patriots’! At least he is up front in his sheer vitriolic idiocy.
Dear oh dear. Was your name and postcode recently part of a leaked memo that was published on a website recently? You know the one with details of ‘members’?
Try this site and see if you know of any closet Nazis:-
http://www.localgibson.com/bnp/
Self-denial and delusion are all part of the package when it comes to re-writing history in an vain attempt to pass the buck from one’s own evil thoughts and deeds.
I have read postings on various websites which deny that Rangers FC ever had a sectarian signing policy for a huge slice of their history (1910-1989?). Instead, these rabid delusional loonies actually state that Catholics were either too bigoted to sign for Rangers, or were too scared of the reaction of there own communities if they did! I ain’t making this up and have seen this ‘theory’ posted more than once. They are also usually the same slime who claim that Celtic were started with the sole intention of stopping integration of (Irish) Catholics with the ‘natives’! As if this wasn’t enough of a problem at the time anyway! (No Irish, No Dogs signs anyone?)
The old mantra of ‘keep repeating this to yourself and you will eventually believe it to be true’ is completely relevant when it comes to idiotic revisionism that a small minority of internet jellyheads have been indulging in over the past couple of years. The sort who will joyfully slander dead people who have no obvious comeback.
I wish this to be posted on all of Phil’s blogs for all to read if the house rules do not forbid it.
February 2, 2009 at 8:49 am
william
Max, you knowledge of the pope Pious’s role is the Nazi’s coming to power and his acceptance of the slaughter of innocent Jews is actually quite staggering. It is also comical to witness you avoid the Hitler/Devil’era / Sean Russell connections
February 1, 2009 at 10:16 am
max
The Holy Roman Apostolic Catholic Church is the only Christian faith that can be traced directly back to the table of the last supper, not a political party.
January 30, 2009 at 1:46 pm
Ryan
This will be the same Pope Pious XII who was ridiculed in nazi propaganda papers for being a Jewish sympathiser would it? I agree that the ‘neutral’ stance of the Vatican perhaps left a lot to be desired at the time but. aside from the obvious representatives of Judaism, which other religious bodies at the time were forthcoming in condemnation? Pope Pious XII and the Vatican did not even make a statement to condemn the almost 3 million Polish Catholics who were slaughtered by German and Russian forces. Does this make hm anti-Catholic?
It has even come to light years later that Pious actually helped hide Jewish victims during the war, and played a pivotal role in the emplyment of Jewish scholars in various positions in the Vatican. Hardly the act of a vicious anti-Semite is it?
Sean Russell was NOT an aide to De Valera. How could the chief of an outlawed, illegal organisation at the time have a ‘cosy’ relationship with the Taoiseach? Sean Russell was extremely naive in his dealings with nazi Germany, but this not due to sympathy with their cause, he was simply thinking of the benefits to Ireland of a British defeat to the Germans, and the united Ireland, free of British Imperilism He was thinking purely out of self-interest. I’m not condoning any of his dealings with the nazis in the slightest, but trying to view it in perspective of the situation at the time. Like I said, Sean Russell was a naive fool with regards to his involvement in this situation. There were plenty of British sympathisers to the nazis at the time. Moseley anyone? But is anyone claiming that this was indicative of the views of the general British public at the time? Certainly not.
De Valera’s sinister role in this? Please explain.
Have you ever heard of ‘The Emergency’? Ireland’s position was strictly neutral during WWII. Self-interest was the order of the day for a nation which had suffered extreme hardship and slaughter at the hands of another foreign invader previously. What would Ireland have to gain by becoming involved in Britain’s war?
Despite the neutrality, Ireland DID intern and hand over any German spies captured on Irish soil. I see you have also overlooked the assistance and aid that Ireland provided during the Belfast blitz. Not very convenient to your agenda is it?
Yes, De Valera did sign Adolf Hitler’s condolence book at the German embassy. Certainly not the smartest move of his long and turbulent life. As Taioseach, he claimed he was simply following international protocol. Like I have said, not the greatest thing he ever did but hardly the act of a conspiring war criminal.
2 other things (I simply don’t have time to shoot you down on everything, life is too short), Eamon De Valera NEVER said he wanted to create ‘A Catholic country for Catholic people’, his words were ‘An Irish government for Irishmen’. Quite reasonable, but it doesn’t fit your twisted agenda does it?
One more thing, Adolf Hitler was NOT a devout RC. He was certainly baptised but rejected the teachings and values at a very early age. Look into the treatment of the RC church and clergy during WWII. You might find something of interest.
January 30, 2009 at 12:59 pm
Ian
William,
are you not a wee bit obsessed with De Valera?, the man was subject to a lot of slander during his life , mainly as he couldn’t be bought, certainly not by Britain or Hitler, what nonsense , De Valera choose neutrality , even from his hospital bed.William this discussion is regarding an issue from this century, in case you missed the point.If some foreign country invaded and took control of a large section of britain tomorrow , would you not defend it tooth and nail like EDV, and do all you could to get it back from the evil oppressor! Look inward William , open your mind , get rid of the hatred, bring yourself to write “celtic” with all the letters, it’s dead easy look;; I can write “rangers” no problem whatsoever . I’ll say a couple of Hail Marys for you.
January 30, 2009 at 9:35 am
FIGHT RACISM
William
Can you please detail where i have said anything that can be construed as racist,else retract your comments if they were aimed at myself.That is if the comment ‘Blind Racist’ was aimed at me.I have no problem debating issues with anyone but am not prepared to put up with such unfounded comments
Thank you
January 29, 2009 at 4:47 pm
william
Oh! and lets not forget DeValera’s sinister role in all of this ?
January 29, 2009 at 2:46 pm
william
Max,
you nearly made a valid point there, NEARLY.
Every major power in western europe tried to avoid war, but someone had to stand up to the devout RC dictators from Germany and Italy, Step forward GB.
On the other hand pope pious signed a pact with Hiltler stating that the church would not interfere with his policies, and if we go back further in the pontiffs career, He actually stood down the RC political parties to allow Hilter to come to power
January 29, 2009 at 2:44 pm
max
I seem to remember something about a certain BRITISH Prime minister Neville Chamberlian standing on the steps of a plane waving a piece of paper, declairing, “PEACE IN OUR TIME” after negotiations with Adolf, who at the time was running roughshod over Europe, putting the amenities in place for The Holocaust!
I’m all right jack?
Greenhouses?
January 29, 2009 at 1:06 pm
william
I will answer the posts from Frank, Ryan and The Blind Racist above.
with 2 words “Sean Russell”
Since you 3 are devoid of any histroical facts then I shall regale you. Sean Russell was an aide to DeValera and was killed whilst aboard a German u-boat was sank as it approached Dublin, He was sent to negoiate with the Nazi’s.
In case you blissfully unaware Winston Churchill offered home rule to DeValera in return for him allowing Britain sole use of Southern Irish ports, He refused and said he was more content dealing with the eventual winners of the war (Germany, in his eyes) This information can be found easly. but why would you 3 want to know the truth, It would shatter your full world
January 29, 2009 at 10:26 am
Frank Devine
29 players during the 2nd World War – some 1st team the famours gers must have had, were they all oc’s in the Home Guard? However I accept totally that I may have been wrong and that some Rangers players were not in ‘reserved occupations’ during the war.
I will decline your kind offer to reply to your other assertions, if only because I note that you have not replied to any of the queries I have raised with you.
I never made a first threat to you – how could I have made a second? I am concened about your mental state of health and was enquiring as to the level of care you were entitled to.
Your idiotic allusion to the Irish governments ‘collusion’ with the Nazi’s really should be treated with the contempt it deserves. Where are you getting this drivel from? What sources? Academic or otherwise, are informing your crazed assertions?
Or are we being treated to history as vomited out from the slopes of Ibrox Park.
I repeat my earlier assertion – In my opinion you are a crackerjack X
January 29, 2009 at 9:59 am
Ryan
‘It just prove that if someone tells lies long enough, then certain morons will believe it’.
Absolutely priceless! Said without the slightest hint of irony!
Go on, tell us what you know about Ireland and the nazi scum in bed together! Please! More entertainment now!
January 29, 2009 at 9:29 am
FIGHT RACISM
Are we any further forward on this Sinn Fein oath? Who knows,perhaps at Bodenstown every year the body of Wolfe Tone is disinterred in order to allow attendees the opportunity to practice.Incidentally the BNP do sell literature at Ibrox,not on a weekly basis but have done on numerous occasions in the past.I love the U-Boat fuelling tale myself,find it funny when you ask which port and in which year it transpired and then the blank faces.Pray for William lads,and i mean that.He is not the first and will not be the last of the bigots who when their intolerance becomes socially unacceptable they then resort to victim blame.It happened in the Southern States of America and South Africa also.We will disregard for now that the recurring favourite among the Rangers support until UEFA intervention was themed around Billy Fullerton,a Nazi-minded,anti-Semitic,anti-Catholic whose ambition in part was to make the KKK a powerful force in Britain.
January 29, 2009 at 6:04 am
william
Frank it is better to keep quite and let people think you are stupid, that to post absolute tosh and confirm people suspicions. Gerard Donaghy was claimed by the IRA as an active volunteer in 2002. put that in your pipe and smoke it ! In 2005 they also admitted responsibility for shooting 14 year old Kathleen Feeney in Londonderry in 1973, after blaming the British Army for over 3 decades.
Rangers players who served in WWII include
Willie Thornton
Donald McLatchie
Thomas Soutar
Sammt Cox
David Gray
Archie McAuley
Willie Paton
David Marshall
David Kinnear
Tory Gillick
Adam Little
Eddie Rutherford
Jimmy Galloway
Alex McKillop
Tom McKillop
Joe Johnstone
Willie Knox
R Cowan
P Grant
A Beattie
G McKay
Chris McNee
Ian McPherson
Eddie Rutherford
Jimmy Simpson
Alex Stevenston
Jimmy Parlane
Billy Williamson
Bobby Brown.
It just prove that if someone tells lies often enough, then certain morons will believe it.
Now you are going to get my fingers broken Frank. is that another threat ?.
Any thought on the Irish governments collusion with the Nazi’s
January 28, 2009 at 3:32 pm
Frank Devine
‘william’
I do truly think you are bonkers and a crackerjack – you feel the need to regurgitate complete falsehoods, like the innocent victims of Bloody Sunday were IRA volunteers, like Celtic Park was closed during the 2nd World War for pro Nazi singing (hilarious, given that our ancestors were more likely to be fighting the Nazis than your lot who were working in reserved occupations in the shipyards, steelworks and coalmines.
I challenge you crackerjack, to name one serious historian to back up any of your harebrained theories.
You will be telling me next that the fascistic sub humans exposed on BBC1′s Crimewatch last night were Celtic supporters or, even better, IRA Volunteers (or a combination of both!?!?), determined to sully the good name of Scotlands Shame FC supporters?
Your carers bear a huge responsibility for allowing you to embarress yourself on a public forum; If you could provide me with your surname (which I doubt very much cause it’s easier to hide behing a PC screen)I can take steps to ensure that your fingers are rendered unusuable by suitably qualified medical staff and thus ensuring you will not be a laughing stock any longer.
Think I’ll go and research what Nazi songs our forefathers were singing during the 2nd World War – Crackerjack!!!!!!!!!!!!!
January 28, 2009 at 7:07 am
william
Max,
Lets just say I like to expose lies and especially from hate filled bigots like yourself who are obsessed with everything Rangers
I do not use follow follow, Its more your type of page, how long have you been a member for ?
January 27, 2009 at 7:00 pm
max
YAAAAWWWWWN!
You seem to have a very unhealthy obsession with Phils site william, I’m thinking, ‘internet stalker’ here. If you don’t like the opinions expressed on this site, try follow follow.
I hear 99.999% of huns prefer it!
January 27, 2009 at 4:03 pm
william
Frank,
you have made my day, has the scar from your labatomy healed or is it still fresh, you should never drink on an empty head Frank.
Right let me deal with your nonsense.
The Sinn Fein oath is correct and has never been disproved by anyone, when did historians start disproving oaths ? LOL excuse me while I try and stop this chuckling.
Again we have this old chestnut about the parkhead floodlights, I have never heard this ridiculous statement mentioned by anyone apart from yourself and Ryan, A good smoke screen to hid the truth. Parkhead was closed because the vermin who frequent it showed support for the Nazi’s. Are you blissfully unaware that Rangers also used players who were stationed here during the war, eg Sir Stanley Mathews. I will supply you with a List of Rangers players who served in both Wars if you wish.
if you want to speak about anti semetics then look no further that the ROI government, The RC church and the PLO supporting Celtic support, as for your hilarious end to your 1st post bwhahahahahaha, I believe you and your ilk suffer from an unhealthy fascination with everythin Rangers.
As for you 2nd comical post, stats don t lie, The protestant population of Cork decreased by 82%. If you research it you will uncover the truth, please come back and tell me that the men women and children who were dragged from their beds and shot were all informers or collaborators. lol now you have blamed the trouble on those big bad loyalists, deal in facts Franky boy, The republican mass murderers killed more people than all the loyalist groups, the RUC, The UDR and the Army combined.
I will leave you with this rather revealing fact, The IRA killed more Roman Catholics than any other group,
I love you other point, that old collusion chestnut, straight from the Sinn fein rags, Deal in Facts. next you ll be telling me that the young girl shot in Londonderry was killed by the Brits, and none of the 13 killed during Bloody sunday were not active IRA volunteers, OH ! sorry the IRA have not admitted those after 30 odd years of using them as recruitment issues.
I hope that answers your questions dimwit
January 27, 2009 at 2:46 pm
Frank Devine
Sorry I forgot to refute a number of other allegations by the crackerjack ‘william’.
The crackerjack has suggested that if you ‘google’ this and ‘google’ that, it will ‘prove’ the ethnic slaughter of protestants in Cork during and after the Tan War – complete nonsense and another fabrication; while there may have been a number of sectarian killing in Cork, perpetrated by envious catholic farmers on their protestant (usually Anglican), neighbours, their is simply no evidence of wholesale ethnic cleansing, none at all, and no serious historian, even bitterly anti republican revisionists, such as Peter Hart, would make such a ludicrous claim.
The ‘loyal’ population of Bandon and other parts of Cork, for the most part, simply decided that they did not wish to live under a native government and therefore many moved, either to the north or to England.
If ‘william’s, obsession with ethnic cleansing neeeds sated he should travel a couple of hundred miles up the road to Belfast and Lisburn where thousands of Irish catholic nationalists and trade unionists and socialists were expelled from their homes and jobs by loyalist murder gangs; perhaps one of the best examples being the terror inflicted on the catholics of Lisburn following the IRA’s execution of DI Swanzy in 1920-21? An entire community terrorised by the murder gangs, armed and paid for by the British Government.
Also, if protestant, catholic, Jew, Hindu, muslim and those of no faith decide to give their vote to catholic candidates at election time, thereby providing a majority of catholic councillors, whose fault is that?
You are bonkers William and in need of psychiatric help.
January 27, 2009 at 9:50 am
Frank Devine
I try not to contribute to message boards any more, or, at least not as much as I used to – but the demented ramblings of the crackerjack ‘william’ deserve a response.
Here are a number of refutations although in no particular order:
The ‘Sinn Fein’ oath is a complete fabrication and is discounted by all historians, and anyone with a brain.
The AOH ‘oath’ is a pile of shite; I once heard a version of this oath quoted to me by my boss re the Knights of Saint Columbus – I told him he urgently required a lobotomy for spewing such garbage.
Celtic Park was not closed for ‘keeping their floodlights on to guide Nazi bombers to the shipyards’, etc. How can a sane individual believe such nonsense? We were to busy guiding the u-boats off the coast of Donegal!!!!!!!!!
Most Rangers players (in fact I cant think of one who did fight), were in reserved occupations and were able to field strong teams throuout the 2nd World War; on the other hand the Celtic team was completely decimated and had to take players on loan from other teams who were stationed up here during the war.
There exists within the Rangers support a fascistic element who detest catholics in the exact same way nazis, fascist and anti-semites hated the Jews.
‘william’ and his ilk only serve to prove that there is a lunatic, lumpen element in Scottish society, who, while they may have access to computer, serve only to prove that they are obsessed with catholics, people of Irish descent, Celtic Football Club, Celtic supporters.
They are bonkers!!!
January 27, 2009 at 9:21 am
william
Please state one issue I have avoided Ryan or is it Phil or is it John Ryan, social worker. Envy is a terrible affliction. A campaigning journalist ? who has an obvious agenda against Scotlands most successful football club, Sorry, the most successful team in world football, more major honours than any other Pro football club, anyway Phil. Have you had any articles published by a REAL tabloid ? I mean, anything with a circulation of over 15,000. you are on the lower end of the scale and would be fortunate to get a column in the beano, You don t have a long way to fall Phil, but moves are afoot and I look forward to your demise.
PMSL what is an egde, my mistake is simple because g and f are next to each other on the keyboard. I suppose you always have spell check when you type you many unpublished articles, LMAO
January 16, 2009 at 6:26 am
Ryan Rocks
Ryan, sorry to hear of your bifot condition, hope it doesn’t cause any discomfort, William is obviously teetering on the egde of insanity, I wouldn’t even bother answering him he has avoided every issue anyone has raised and just delivered endless tit for tat twaddle.
keep up the good work fella !
January 15, 2009 at 5:06 pm
william
Welcome back Ryan, your bitter twisted drivle has been missed. You have supplied no reasonable answers to any of my previous posts,
It is common knowledge that GCC council is controlled by people of a RC/Celtic persuasion, Hence street parties when celtic win the league, Moving Guy Fawkes firework display because Celtic were playing that night, Lets hope they don t schedule a game for christmas day. If you dispute my FACTS about and your stupid come backs exposes you for what you are. The attendances for the Church of Ireland are on the increase and that is a fact, It may not reach the heights it enjoyed before the genocidal campaign but it is still increasing,
people in Ireland are disallusioned with the RC church and the never ending child abuse scandals,
Are you now rewritting historical facts in the 1920s, next you ll be telling me that the villians involved in the uprising were not stoned by the people of Dublin and shooting unarmed 17 year old boys is an act of bravery.
My definition of “A War” is when 2 opposing armies meet face to face on a battle field, NOT people killing unarmed members of the security forces in their beds. Pulling entire families from their farms and killing them or Bombing city centres on Friday mornings when it is predominately filled with women and children shopping.
How can you romantisise forcing a religion onto people, are you a fan of the Inquisition ?
If you dispute any of my posts, then search “The displacement of the protestant people in Ireland” search “The RCs stance on mixed marriages”.
So you can truely confirm that no collections are made in Gallowgate pubs,,, Bwhahahahahaha
As for the Hitler issues, Sean Russell mean anything to you ? DeValera offering this sympathy on the death of Hitler to the German Embassy, after the holocust was common knowledge, Celtic park being closed during WWII due to Celtic fans showing support for the Nazi’s.
As for you ridiculous statement about the BNP recruiting at Parkhead, PMSL, I think they prefer patriotic people, Not people who will support terrorist killing their own soldiers, or another army at war with their country, eg Germany and Argentina,
Finally, you have shot down nothing that I have said, you have disproved nothing. The Oaths have been common knowledge since the early 80s and have been published in various webpages and magazines, So please feel free to prove me wrong, I take it you have both searched them and found out the same.
I must be really getting to you Ryan judging by your rather abusive response. typical from a twisted deluded bifot
January 15, 2009 at 3:45 pm
Ryan
William,
Keep it up. You are utterly hilarious. You come out with all sorts of whacky lines and slanderous accusations then hit out with ‘That proves who the real bigots are!’.
I’m glad that you have taken a census of the religious status of Lord Provosts and Glasgow City Councillors over the years. ‘Glasgow City councillors are predominantly RC’. I think you might find that if you looked there is a broad mixture of all religions represented, be it Protestant, RC(they get everywhere these days, not long before one is PM or married to a monarch!), Muslim, whatever. It is called DEMOCRACY.
You confuse me so many times (and probably yourself). I know I shouldn’t be paying much attention to your self-justifying hate and drivel. You dredge up all sorts of stats about the decline of the Protestant population (wherever you got these from, the local ludge perhaps?) then go on about attendance of Protestant churches increasing in Ireland! Make up your mind please. If the figures you quote are true, perhaps people have fled for economic reasons and others.
When you refer to families being dragged from bed and shot in Cork I trust you got this info from a severely discredited book that was published recently (of which I cannot recall the title or author such is it’s credibility)? No-one is denying that some, especially rich landowners, suffered this sort of treatment (unfortunately it was a dirty war, yes a WAR not a terrorist campaign started by those shady Irish) but for you to try and claim that ethnic cleansing took place on a Serbian level just shows the absurd, ignorant, lying fool that you really are. Please, keep on posting your blinkered, brainwashed drivel.
Yes, Ireland after the Free State was established did try to go back to traditional values (and that meant Roman Catholic values at the time after centuries of oppression) but are you seriously claiming that Protestants in the Republic received the same horrific treatment as the indigenous Catholic population in Ulster? You are going down the old road of interpreting the uprising and subsequent campaigns into a simple Catholic v Protestant issue. I’m afraid the history of the Republic Of Ireland is far more deep and complex than that my friend. There were as many political and sociologial reasons for action as well. If it was simply religious bigotry, explain to me the contribution of ‘Great Protestant Men’ to the cause over the years. No-one is claiming that there wasn’t zealous bigots around but certainly NOT at the level you claim.
The claim you made re mixed marriage couples being forced to bring their children up as Catholic is also ill-informed (surprise, surprise). You are right on one front, this bill was imposed by a rather zealous individual but was vetoed by the Irish parliament before it became law, NOT carried on until recently like you claim. But hey, why let the truth get in the way of your twisting of the facts in order to justify your own vile hatred?
Blah blah blah, pubs in the Gallowgate collect money for ‘the cause’, blah blah blah ‘Republican periodicals on sale’, etc. When were you last in a pub in the Gallowgate? These collections stopped years ago, but don’t let that get in the way of your keyboard slavering.
‘The Celtic support and natives of the ROI could tell you more about Hitler’s policies than anyone’ is just about the maddest statement I have ever heard but it ain’t surprising coming from you Bilyboy. If that was the case, why doesn’t the bnp regard Parkhead, rather than Ibrox, as a fertile recruiting ground?
As for the oaths you refer to, see Fight Racism’s comments above
I could go on forever shooting down the nonsense you post as fact but life is too short. I wouldn’t normally descend to this level of internet ping-pongery but I simply cannot abide peepel like yourself coming on and typing all sorts of dangerous propaganda. More power to you Phil for printing this stuff to prove that mindsets like this still exist.
Anyway, whatabout the whataboutery?
January 15, 2009 at 7:02 am
FIGHT RACISM
Is there any definitive proof that these are the oaths? I will explain my scepticism.Throughout the war in Ireland,certainly the most recent phase,is it not likely that from Paisley to Trimble and others,such an oath from a political party would have been brought up.Experience has taught me that to persist in engendering racism and sectarianism,it is those who misinform on occasions and those who want to believe certain thigs that are contributory to sustained division.Victim blame is something that is indicative in many with supremacist attitudes,ranging from the BNP to the KKK.
January 15, 2009 at 4:08 am
william
Ian,
I never posted the oaths, someone else did, but if you search them, then the same oaths come up time and time again, therefore that proves who the real bigots are. If you have a problem with being British, then you have an almighty problem, because you live here.
I do not recall ever calling you a plastic paddy, Do you feel like one all the time, or is it just when you are exposed to it at Celtic Park, so now you are imagining offensive slander, how very typical.
I will accept your apology for talking nonsense on this site.
As far as I am aware the Lodges do contribute towards the policing, They also pay taxes and are very supportive of our security forces.
I am sorry that you only have ” a big plate of tatties” for sustainance, I myself had mince, peas and neeps with mine,
It must be strength sapping trying to think up lies and ways to be offended.
Goodnight Ian, sweet dreams
January 14, 2009 at 7:24 pm
Ian
William, so that’s a naw then? replies …: Is that the real oaths? I have little interest either way Iam Scottish and proud. I just don’t like being associated with being British. William A , what makes me a plastic paddy? utter trollop bigoted nonsense from you! You couple of real bigots have really missed the point to the extent that we are all writing tit for tat nonsense and I feel i must apologise to Phil for the degrading of his site somewhat.As for subsidising , do the lodge pay for policing walks ? no ? yes? no? phone a friend ? No more from me , all very tiresome , feel free to have the last word. Iam away to have a big plate of tatties , but you knew that anyway !
January 14, 2009 at 5:49 pm
william
stagger about then, at your will, who are the racist bigots now ?
January 14, 2009 at 5:04 pm
FIGHTT RACISM
I am absolutely staggered if people are prepared to believe that is the oath of either Sinn Fein or indeed the AOH
January 14, 2009 at 3:22 pm
william
Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit Ian,and you are not even very good at that. Maybe you would be better served responding to the oath of the AOH, do you find that acceptable ? They have branches and clubs all over Scotland and their membership includes some prominent politicians, as I have stated earlier, drinking in the street is an offence in Scotland, It began in North Lanarkshire and is not also Law in Glasgow,
Buckfast is consumed mostly in Coatbridge and if you attend any of the many AOH or Republican parades in that town, then, you will see Buckie Bottles, cheap cider and beer bottles strewn everywhere or maybe even their St Patricks day parade which is subsidised by NLC council. They generally like to stab each other and smash the empty bottles over each others heads, Once you are finished there you can travel into the Forge and visit a shop called TIMLAND, here you will be able to purchase various Irish republican publications and media, then you can walk along the Gallowgate and take your pick from many celtic / Irish pubs where you can contribute to “The Cause” Or if you happen to be there in May, you can vist Royston, They have government funded street parties when Celtic win the league, Maybe it’s time to get out of the “downtrodden Irish” mode and accept that you are a citizen of the UK. Billy is not a very common name in the west of Scotland, some people are christened William, like myself. but their are plenty people baptised Patrick,Sean, Declan and John Paul and most of them are gamefully employed and are proud to be citizens of the UK, until they visit Parkhead and are exposed to blatant racist sectarian hatred against everything British and Protestant, possibly from inherent Bigots like yourself.
January 14, 2009 at 1:56 pm
William Anderson
This must be the most hilarious website in planet mopery. You plastic Irish, really do revel in your imagined victimhood. Glasgow city council, not a Protestant Lord Provost for over 30 years, Monklands council issuing two different coloured application forms, just to ban the indiginous population. Apartheid scools, openly discriminating against Protestants, with the full backing of the cowards in Parliament. And yet the Mopes, who are not Irish, never have been, never will be, are utterly obsessed about all things Rangers and Protestant.
It’s Ok guys, you are allowed to move on you know. You can become Scottish any day now, we are very welcoming people to anyone who fully enjoys and engrosses all things Scottish.
Funny how the Poles, Italians and many other Scots from RC backgrounds, don’t have the same obsession with feeling victimised.
Be Scottish, be British, you know it makes sense, it cleanses the soul of all the pent up hate you people have.
OH! Late newsflash……
You are Scottish and British. REJOICE…………………
January 14, 2009 at 9:24 am
Ian
Hello again William, you are good at deflecting from the real truths, so let me be clear on what your saying; Followers of the Orange walk bring bags of empty cans and buckie bottles and empty them into the gutters and arrange them over Glasgow green as some kind of homage to some kind of fen shui temperance society, Sinn Fein are once again standing for the Auchenshoogle seat , a god fearin’ protestant can’t walk the length of Maryhill Road without having to walk past one of those dreadful Hibernian Halls bedecked with twelve foot banners of the pope with Hess riding side saddle traversing a river overflowing with Orange Blood and maternity wards are full of new mothers crying ” Naw Sean we canny cry him Billy he’ll never get a joab”.I won’t even dwell on the petition at parkhead against Summer football , because in the summer ‘the sky is just too Blue’.You obviously don’t reside in the same west of Scotland I do.
January 13, 2009 at 7:29 pm
william
Ian, it is a crime to drink in the street in scotland, so that deals with one of your false allegations, Maybe you should also be aware that the membership of the Protestant Church is increasing in Mainland Britain and Ireland, The same cannot be said of the rc church. I am not a member of the OO but I have seen their sworn oath, It says nothing about murdering RCs regardless of their age, Did you read the 2 Oaths published above ? I would also suggest that Celtic supporters and natives of the ROI would know more about Hitler’s policies than I ever would, Pope Pious would too, as he was heavily involved in them. Funny you should mention that catholics are not made welcome because GCC and most other council offices in Scotland are predominately full of RC councillors, They are so unwelcome that they are elected to control Scotlands largest local government office
January 13, 2009 at 3:43 pm
Ian
William,
we could argue about doctrine and right and wrong doings of the past on every side of the fence for ever, please don’t make wrong assumptions regarding my knowledge of any subject, it says a lot that you would do so. I expressed my opinion only, Hitler knew a helluva lot about Nazi politics ….didn’t make him right ! did it ?#. What I do know , and you can ‘t argue against ,is that catholic people in this country < Scotland, are not made to feel very welcome , and the OO does nothing to add to the harmony the vast majority of the people , be they from the irish diaspora or indigenous , yearn for.I don’t believe ‘it does what it says on the tin’ if church attendances mirrored the buckfast driven hoardes that spout their venom on the streets every summer, then it would be a worthy organization , and maybe i could write which school I attended in a job application without reckoning I just halved my chances.
January 12, 2009 at 10:45 pm
Sean O'Kee
The Sinn Fein Oath
I swear by Almighty God, by all Heaven, by the Holy and Blessed prayer book, of the Roman Catholic Church, by the Holy Virgin Mary Mother of God, by her bitter tears and wailing’s, by St Patrick, our Blessed and adorable Host, the Rosary to fight until we die in the field of red gore of the Saxon tyrants and murderers.
Of our glorious nationality, if spared to fight until not a single trace is left to tell that the Holy soil of Ireland was trodden by these Heretics. Also these Protestant robbers and brutes, these unbelievers of our faith, will be driven into the sea, by fire, the knife or by poison cup until we of the Catholic faith and avowed defenders of the Sinn Fein action and Principles, clear these Heretics from our lands.
Age is not to be considered in our blessed deeds of extermination of Brutes who in ages past have robbed our churches. We must shed streams of blood of these tyrants to again claim our Holy places.
Report to our Blessed priests regularly upon all works and business transactions.
Any cost we must work in secret, using any method of deception to gain our ends, towards the destruction of all Protestants and the advance of the Priesthood and the Catholic faith.
Our Beloved Ireland has been held in chains by these cursed foreign tyrants for ages, now we can see the end of their power.
We must strike at every opportunity using all methods of causing ill felling within the Protestant ranks, and in their business. The employment of any means will be Blessed by our earthly fathers the Priests, thrice Blessed by His Holiness the Pope.
Scotland must also be swept clean of their accursed beliefs by the extermination of all Masonic and all such bodies as do not accept our creed must perish, as before the days of the accursed Reformation.
So shall we of the Roman Catholic Church and faith destroy with smiles and Thanksgiving to our Holy Father all who reject our beliefs. So help me God.
Ancient Order of Hibernians oath
“In the presence of Almighty God, and this my brother, I swear that I will suffer my right hand to be cut off from my body and laid at the gaol door before I waylay, or betray a brother; and I will persevere and not spare from the cradle to the crutch, and from the crutch to the cradle; that I will not hear the moans or groans of infancy or old age, but will wade knee-deep in Orangeman’s blood, and do as King James did.
And I further swear to owe no allegiance to any Protestant or Heretic Sovereign, ruler, Prince, or potentate, and I will not regard any oath delivered to me by them or their subjects, be they judge, magistrate, or else, as binding.
And I swear to aid as best I can any brother or brothers who may be on trail for any act or expression of theirs before judge, magistrate, or else; and to be ready at all times to aid by every means in my power to assist in preserving his or their liberties; and if myself a witness, to disregard such oath as binding.
By virtue of this oath I have taken, I will aid and assist with all my might and strength when called upon to massacre Protestants and cut away heretics, burn British churches, abolish Protestant Kings and Princes, and all others except the Church of Rome and this system.
And by virtue of this oath I have taken, I will think it no sin to kill a Protestant whenever the opportunity serves.
January 12, 2009 at 12:10 pm
william
Full families where taken from their beds and shot, The protestant population decreased by 70%, I never once heard Mandella say he was creating a “Black nation for Black People” maybe he had better intensions than DeValera. Facts are not propaganda Ryan,
In 1861 the protestant population of Dublin was 27%, it is now 3%, thats is a substantial reduction and means an 82% drop. there are various reason for this drop, Some protestants did not want to live in DeValera’s “catholic nation for catholic people” others were murdered or forced from their homes, Protestant businesses were boycotted and forced to close. Until recently children from mixed marriages were forced to bring their children up catholic. Ptotestants were discriminated against in the job market. I will accept this also happened in the north Ryan but 2 wrongs do not make a right and almost 50% is a rather ambitious estimate
January 12, 2009 at 11:39 am
Ryan
Yet more propaganda from our esteemed friend William.
Ethnic cleansing? I’m sure natives of Scotland and Ireland could certainly tell you all about that, mainly thanks to charming English invaders through the years.
It’s amazing how some individuals, whether they belong to an organisation or not, can twist the truh to suit their own ends.
When aparteid in South Africa was officially ended and Nelson Mandela was sworn in as leader the white population of the country decreased dramatically. Would you also regard this as ‘ethic cleansing’? Unbelievable!
Incidentally, partition is one of the good old British ways of leaving the mess they have created behind for others to sort out. At least in N.I almost 50% of the population are now fairly represented at the Stormont assembly. It might have taken almost 80 years but better late than never.
January 11, 2009 at 3:10 pm
FIGHT RACISM
William
I would be interested to hear what you assume to be the oaths of the AOH and Sinn Fein for their ‘racist or sectarian content’
January 11, 2009 at 4:13 am
william
Yes Ian the story was from 2007, Is The David you speak of Darren’s brother ? wow, So now “a catholic nation for catholic people is for everyone” tell that to the protestant people of Cork who were murdered in their beds after partition, The protestant population of the ROI has decreases by 70% since partition, That equates to ethnic cleansing on a scale that the sebs could only dream of. your knowledge of the catholic religion is very sparse, Secular schools ? I would be willing to debate doctrine with you anytime, I am not a member of the OO, but I do know quite a bit about the AOB and SF oath, would you be willing to discuss these racist and sectarian oaths
January 10, 2009 at 11:41 pm
Ian
George, I believe(that means only my opinion, by the way) no religion or idealology is ever 100% representative of all of the people who follow it, we can but try to do our best individually. I see the Rev Rennie didn’t get a unanimous welcome in Aberdeen, in light of his ‘lifestyle’ , yet I wouldn’t assume that is the feelings of the entire chuch of Scotland.
January 10, 2009 at 9:21 pm
george
Ian does the predominantly for everyone statement include homosexuals or are they not welcome like your pope wants.
January 10, 2009 at 10:27 am
Ian
William,
was the David Graham story not from 2007 ? I take it you’ve read all of Phil’s articles from that period? It would be an “economy of truth” if you hadn’t. May i also strongly suggest that the good thing about predominantly catholic nations is that they are predominantly “for everyone” Tolerance for me is a big part of being a catholic , however the doctrine of the “peepel” at Ibrox is mirrored by that of the orange lodge , “he should strenuously oppose the fatal errors and doctrines of the church of Rome ..” or I like this one it’s a cracker..”resist the ascendancy of that church.. ever abstaining from all uncharitable words, actions or sentiments towards his roman Catholic brethren ”
Now I know I’m contradicting myself somewhat, but does that sound like what we hear from the peepel at the quintessential British club. do i need to mention the choice of flute band to play the ‘follow follow ‘anthem, i don’t believe it’s James Galway conducting that.
January 9, 2009 at 8:08 pm
william
Ryan,
Did young James McCarthy make any complaint to the SPL or the SFA,—- NO!
But Phil opted to champion his cause from across the Irish Sea. There is no place for sectarianism or racism on a playing field or football stadia. I merely asked the question, Why has Phil not written an article on this, May I suggest that he only sees sectarianism as a “one way street” His attacks on RFC and their fans reeks of a personal sectarian agenda. He has mislead people on the history of Rangers football Club. But I suppose people who live in ” A catholic nation for catholic people” are open to suggestion and economy of truth
January 9, 2009 at 2:07 pm
Ryan
The lad that you are so concerned about William has NO religious beliefs and is from a mixed background. Not that this excuses the remarks that he endured from from a so-called fellow player. However, it is relevant in relation to the statement you made above.
But how could the GAA act on the matter if no official complaint was received from Mr Graham?
January 9, 2009 at 5:44 am
william
So he is back playing good for the lad that he never lay down to sectarian bigots in his own country, The lad was abused because of his religious beliefs.
If I was a freelance journalist living near Fermanagh and my boast was a campaigning journalist, This would be an issue that I would be intent on looking into.
January 7, 2009 at 5:53 pm
Frank Devine
The ignorance of the overwhelming majority of the Rangers support knows no bounds; why do I say ‘overwhelming’? Show me any indication that it is anything other than overwhelming? Anywhere?
The sad fact is that there is an agenda at work among the majority of literate (I use that word in the most tenous sense), Rangers supporters. That agenda (which is also promoted by at least some clergymen supporters of that great ‘Scottish Institution’), is bitterly anti-Irish and anti-catholic and will find anti-British conspiracies in the most obscure places. The Fields of Athenry is sang by Irish people in Ireland and members of the Irish diaspora throughout the World and in common with Pete St. John I hardly think it could be characterised or referred to as a ‘rebel’ song. Then again, given that I consider myself a 100% Republican (in every sense of the word), it would not bother me if it was.
Nevertheless, individuals in Scotland and in other parts of the world use any excuse to attack manifestations of Irish culture and heritage in Scotland. That is why they continually attempt to draw comparisons between Celtic FC’s supporters anti- sectarian credentials and seek to argue that ‘one sides as bad as the other’ the biggest intellectual cop out in history when it comes to this issue.
BTW for the benefit of sectarian Rangers fans who have been lurking on here and posting the occasional sectarian comment and trying to compare us with TFOD, I have followed the case of the young Fermanagh GAA player who was subject to sectarian abuse from opposing players from the start. I am pretty siure that the county board in Fermanagh looked into the issue and that the young lad is back playing with his local team.
Sometimes it’s better to have an angle on the entire story rather than stopping somewhere in September.
January 7, 2009 at 11:36 am
william
Rookewood, I seen Paul Wilson play on many occasions and I never heard any racial abuse, Your post never once mentions Rangers fans, maybe it was his own fans as they have a history of racial abuse.
Max, are you making this up, when was Robson ever hit with potatoes. your falsehoods do you no good, Robson is an indigenous Scot born from 2 scottish parents, just like most of the celtic support.
As for Naka, In what way did Rangers fans mock the atomic bomb attacks, Is this your vivid imagination again. and now Rangers fans are Nazis, lol. Is that why Parkhead was closed during WWII because of Celtic fans supporting the Nazis. Hitler’s allies during WWII were mostly from the Irish Republic, does Sean Russell ring a bell
January 5, 2009 at 11:43 am
max
I think you’ll find that’s “why PEEPEL would throw potatoes at him”, and you would really have to ask them. You seem to have evaded the question of the abuse Naka had to take, rearrangers supporters openly mocking the deaths of hundreds of thousands of his countrymen/women/childrend in the WWII nuclear holocaust in Japan! (and I’ll let red hand/Nazi salutes speak for themselves!!)
January 4, 2009 at 11:41 am
Rokewood
incidentally––interview with Paul Wilson, with Kerrydale Street:
Racism
I suppose I did get quite a hard time because of my colour when I was a player. But it used to upset my mother more than me.
For some reason, I always scored in those matches. But I never once, not once, gestured to the crowd or retaliated. I felt I had made my point on the pitch. I think big Jock respected me for refusing to rise to the abuse. Racism is a terrible part of the game. There are far more coloured players at both Rangers and Celtic now and it still goes on. I suppose you are always going to get one or two halfwits in big crowds.
January 4, 2009 at 8:27 am
Rokewood
I think a point is being missed here. Racism and sectarianism should be universally condemned. And both clubs are marred by it.
But what is genuinely sinister here is Stuart McQuarrie, unabashedly identified as a university chaplain (and I emphasise, the ‘official’ chaplain to the university, ie a university appointment, not just a church one), drawing a moral equivalence between TFS and FoA. Indeed, moral equivalence flatters him: TFS ‘embarasses’ him, FoA is ‘vile…racist’. (And , hey, doesn’t SMcQ routinely regale anybody who will listen with his stories about also being Rangers’ chaplain..? Not sure if this is the Club’s view.).
Aside from the sheer uneducated incoherence of his position (which, as others have observed, renders Abba’s famous rebel anthem ‘Fernando’ anti-Spanish racism, as well as much African and American song commemorating decolonisation––ALL rebellion against the British Crown is racist, Stuart? Try telling that to the Malawian Presbyterians. Or is it just Irish rebellion, I wonder?), the disturbing spectacle of a minister so closely identified with an international university displaying these sentiments must cause grave concern for the university authorities.
January 4, 2009 at 8:21 am
william
unfortunately Barry Robson is a scottish protestant so I do not understand why people would throw potatoes at him. only you would know that in your sick mind, Paul Elliot was a terrific defender and NEVER experienced any racial abuse from Rangers fans, you seem to have trouble spelling that word, Paul Wilson was never abused by Rangers fans and I challenge you to provide proof of such, so your whataboutery is flawed, stick to why a young promising player is forced to quit his sport of choice in a ” Catholic country for Catolic people” de Valera’s words not mine. Lets get to the route of sectarianism in sport, lets have your views Phil
January 2, 2009 at 9:54 pm
micky
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=patyTaCY-i0&feature=related
or just search youtube with Boys of the old brigade, here you will find your perfect Celtic fans singing songs of hate and love of the IRA…..dont patronise people by claiming its only the Famine song that is wrong. And what about the young Darren Graham, who cant take further part in his sport because he is a Protestant.
You may think you are perfect, but please accept you have problems also.
January 2, 2009 at 4:52 pm
max
Whataboutery must be your middle name william! I could mention racial abuse being meeted out to Paul Wilson and Paul Elliot, and if you want to talk about the here and now, this season and last, Nakamura was openly taunted with rearrangers ‘supporters’ imitating bomber planes mocking the hundreds of thousands of deaths in Hiroshima, as he was taking a corner, there are plenty of photographs of that one. And are you going to deny Barry Robson had potatoes thrown at him when taking a corner in his first O.F. game for Celtic??
As for your blatant bare faced lie about this imaginary Ibrox disaster song is a disgrace, I’ve been a Celtic supporter for over 40 years and I have NEVER heard such a song, NEVER! For you to fabricate such a thing says alot about you and people of your ilk, you have no respect for anything, and to use the tragic events and the victims of such a terrible tragedy to score points is nothing short of despicable, you truly are the lowest of the low!
January 2, 2009 at 1:30 pm
william
Kirrie Tim,
show you a Celtic fan that condons the Walters Incident ????
what about the Celtic fans who taunted walters every time he touched the ball, What about all the grocers in the East End of Glasgow being sold out of bananas on that day. These people have not disappeared, they are still there, a few years older, This is the worse incident of racism ever seen in Scottish Sport.
January 1, 2009 at 5:19 pm
william
Ryan since you are unable to paste on this page I cannot supply you with the link, but if you search Darren Graham on google you will find the story on several pages as well as comments on Slugger O Toole and various articles in the Irish press
Darren Graham is 25 years old and comes from Lisnaskea in Co Fermanagh. He plays for the Emmets and represented his country at under 21 level. He is believed to be the only protestant player in the county. He has vowed never to play again after constant sectarian abuse from players and fans. This has come as a major blow to the GAA who are trying to shed their sectarian record
January 1, 2009 at 5:14 pm
Ryan
BTW,
A genuinely happy and prosperous, hate and bigotry-free New Year to Phil & family and to one and all.
December 31, 2008 at 3:30 pm
Ryan
William,
Without wishing to sound completely ignorant, this is the first I have heard of this story. Seeing as you seem to be in possession of the FACTS, why don’t you enlighten us all with the background of the story?
December 31, 2008 at 3:14 pm
william
I doubt if Phil will post this, but if you want to investigate sectarianism within sport in certain countries, why not look a little closer to your new home and the Young lad Darren Graham who was forced to quit the GAA because of sectarian abuse, He was the only non catholic in the team
December 31, 2008 at 12:13 pm
Ian
Jim, I am sure you meant to say ” who don’t condone”. Ryan , loved the “whataboutery” word , certainly works for me, for a reverend in such a post to call a love song, for that is what it is, “vile” etc … is utter nonsense and he really should look back on his comments and be ashamed. I know many decent Rangers fans who are ashamed of the famine song and also know many Celtic fans who can’t but help fill in all the gaps in our crowd pleasers. I rarely get to away games these days yet attend all home games, and have never in my (not inconsiderable) puff heard the ’66′ song.
I resigned myself to the fact a long ,long time ago that we will never be completely free from bampots and bigots , yet what did sadden me was the stance of Rangers Football Club not to come out and condemn the singing of TFS from the start.
December 30, 2008 at 9:02 pm
Ryan
Jim,
It was you who made the accusation that Celtic fans sang songs revelling in the tragedy of the Ibrox disaster. Why should someone prove this was not the case when no-one has any memory of them in the 1st place? I could post an outright scandalous lie here and ask you to disprove it. Impossible. Where is the sense in that?
I know that there is decent Rangers fans out there and I am sure that you are one of them. Good folk who are appalled at some of the songs and behaviour of their fellow fans. But what are these good people doing about the damage that these morons are inflicting on their beloved club? I’m not asking someone to be a foolhardy hero and endanger their health by physically stepping in to stop it, but there are ways and means.
To use the Mark Walters example again, several anti-racist and anti-fascist Celtic supporters groups were set up in the wake of the shameful episode, some of which still run to this day.
There has not been a repeat of that disgraceful behaviour among the Celtic fans since that day. The knuckledraggers have either moved on, keep their stupid mouths shut or have maybe been educated and seen a humane light to shine them out of their ignorance.
All it takes is a few good folk to stand up for a difference to be made. By allowing the lunatics to run the asylum whilst remaining silent is tacit compliance.
December 30, 2008 at 11:53 am
jim stewart
Ok then it must be my age but can you prove it wasn`t sung i certainly cannot prove it was sung.I could get people i know to back me up and say it was same as you could so i think its a stalemate.So that makes it alright that celtic fans condone the Walters incident.I know plenty of good decent rangers fans who condone the f song and the one about Jock Stein.But still our club is dragged through the mud by the press.When it comes to sectarianism i come from an era in my opinion where it was much worse than it is now.My family is mixed and i remember people shunning my father for marrying a catholic and vice versa.Kirrie tim to call it lies that is your opinion my opinion differs it doesn`t mean its wrong or right its just my opinion.
December 30, 2008 at 11:10 am
Ryan
Kirrie Time,
Absolutely spot-on. I have been making that point for ages when it comes to the ‘Whatabouters’.
Almost every Rangers fan who posts on here tries to condone ‘the racist song’ and then indulges in a good old tried and tested spot of ‘Whataboutery’.
‘Whatabout’ the Rebel songs? ‘Whatabout’ the Mark Walters incident 20 years ago? As Kirrie Tim said, find a Celtic fan who condones that and doesn’t condemn it outright and I’ll show you one ignorant, clueless, doesn’t-know-their-history individual.
If this fabled ‘song’ of the tragic Ibrox disaster is so fresh in your memory, perhaps you could enlighten us as to it’s content?
You also mention ‘whitewashing’. Just who is doing this ‘whitewashing’? Go to certain Rangers websites and they REFUSE to acknowledge that Sir Jock Stein helped the sick and injured in the very incident despite photographic and eye witness proof. Now, THAT is whitewashing!
December 30, 2008 at 8:47 am
Danny Blair
I believe the song states \”Against the famine and the crown, I rebelled they cut me down\”.
That says to me that he is not inciting others to do so, but simply explaining what he did and accepting his fate for doing so.
This eejit Rev would not have lasted 2 minutes in a school debating society with his argument.
Enough said.
December 30, 2008 at 7:20 am
Kirrie Tim
@ jim stewart
Find me a Celtic fan who condones the Walters incident and I’ll believe the rest of your lies.
December 29, 2008 at 8:06 pm
jim stewart
andyod next you will be telling us that the celtic fans never threw bananas at mark walters its on youtube.I have been attending Rangers games from the sixties and have heard the Ibrox disaster song sung in the derby game.Not very often but it has been sung.As for the guy with the shirt it doesn`t look fake to me.Maybe its my age and i was hearing things or maybe its convenient to whitewash these things in regard of the greatest fans in the world.
December 29, 2008 at 5:13 pm
hackneycelt
Rev McQuarrie’s remarks are disquieting on a number of levels. I would have hoped that a person appointed to minister to the spiritual needs of students at Glasgow University would have the intellectual rigour to make a sound case for outlandish claims he makes. The basis for his ridiculous ‘racist’ assertion seems to be that rebelling against the Crown is rebelling against ‘the British’ as a race. Which is arrant nonsense! There is no ‘British’ race, and to insist there is flies in the face of the facts.
I also think it’s peculiar that a man who must need to deal with Celtic fans on his professional capacity feels the need to show his contempt for their views. Working in Glasgow he must come into daily contact with Celtic supporters. How can he get along with people in his everyday life who he clearly has nothing but disdain for?
As someone who works in higher education, I feel that anyone who spouts such sentiments has undermined their position. If you had someone go on the radio and say the same thing about black people and songs about slavery, they would undoubtedly lose their job. Accusing Celts of racism on such specious grounds is an accusation too far, as far as I’m concerned. I understand and sympathise with the point of view Jeanette’s expressed above: but it’s one I find myself unable to share.
The idea of free speech means that Rev McQuarrie is entitled to his point of view, no matter how repugnant I or others find it. I would prefer it if that opinion could be substantiated by facts, but freedom of speech is not a demand for reason. Freedom of speech is not, however, freedom from consequences, and I would hope that the management of Glasgow University move swiftly to dissociate themselves from Rev McQuarrie’s remarks and consider whether they wish to continue his employment.
December 29, 2008 at 9:34 am
J O'Hara
TrishB,Martin and Paddy. Nowhere in JF post did i hear any claims that she represented you or indeed all of the Celtic support so not sure what your beef is about there. I have heard Jeanette speak as a representative of the Celtic Trust on many occassions and accept that she only ever claims to represent the views of that organisation on such occassions. I have also heard and read some of her personal views on Celtic and Irish politics over the years and, as a life long Celtic diehard and 3rd generation Irish/Scot her views certainly reflect mine. I also am of the opinion that most of her views would be similar to people like Phil and the majority of the travelling Celtic support. Well done Jeanette for showing a bit of tolerence towards the eejit that is Mac Quarrie. Personally i think he should be left to fight his own corner on this one. It is a pity the same tolerence is not afforded to your goodself from some of those from our own community. It is they who need to “catch themselves on”
December 29, 2008 at 9:25 am
J O'Hara
TrishB,Martin and Paddy. Nowhere in JF post did i hear any claims that she represented you or indeed all of the Celtic support so not sure what your beef is about there. I have heard Jeanette speak as a representative of the Celtic Trust on many occassions and accept that she only ever claims to represent the views of that organisation on such occassions. I have also heard and read some of her personal views on Celtic and Irish politics over the years and, as a life long Celtic diehard and 3rd generation Irish/Scot her views certainly reflect mine. I also am of the opinion that most of her views would be similar to people like Phil and the majority of the travelling Celtic support. Well done Jeanette for showing a bit of tolerence towards the eejit that is Mac Quarrie. Personally i think he should be left to fight his own corner on this one. It is a pity the same tolerence is not afforded to your goodself from some of those from our own community. It is they who need to \”catch themselves on\”
December 29, 2008 at 9:23 am
J O'Hara
TrishB and Paddy. Nowhere in JF post did i hear any claims that she represented you or indeed all of the Celtic support so not sure what your beef is about there. I have heard Jeanette speak as a representative of the Celtic Trust on many occassions and accept that she only ever claims to represent the views of that organisation on such occassions. I have also heard and read some of her personal views on Celtic and Irish politics over the years and, as a life long Celtic diehard and 3rd generation Irish/Scot her views certainly reflect mine. I also am of the opinion that most of her views would be similar to people like Phil and the majority of the travelling Celtic support. Well done Jeanette for showing a bit of tolerence towards the eejit that is Mac Quarrie. Personally i think he should be left to fight his own corner on this one. It is a pity the same tolerence is not afforded to your goodself from some of those from our own community. It is they who need to \”catch themselves on\”
December 29, 2008 at 9:21 am
andyod
finbar i dont have cloth ears . i was attending games back in the 70s and sang in the jungle and can say without doubt that song is not and has never been a song sung by celtic fans . and that guy who is on the celticminded site pictured wearing a celtic strip with ha ha 66 . imo is a fake but you must have saw this guy and been to more than the 900 plus celtic games ive been to know better than me whats sung and whats not sung
December 29, 2008 at 6:51 am
kenny
I think jeanette has a valid point.
To all the people who come on stating that she doesn’t represent their view, unless your a member of The Celtic Trust, I don’t think that she claims to represent you.
December 29, 2008 at 6:39 am
Steve
Well done Phil. Rev MacQuarrie has clearly abused his position within the University to state the bitter and distorted views of his own.
The debacle of the famine song (from the singing of it to the in-action of the Scottish authorities) and now this nonsense from MacQuarrie, only goes to highlight the deep rooted racist problem that exists in Scotland.
p.s. Note to William: I am 35 years old, have been going to Celtic games since the age of 8 and can honestly say I have never in my life heard any Celtic fans sing any song about the Ibrox disaster…never. By all means add your opinion on the discussion but we can do without blatant lies.
December 28, 2008 at 10:21 pm
Charlie m
Good work phil.
Rev fall on your sword
December 28, 2008 at 8:46 pm
Michael Brady
Well Said Jeanette. It sadly seems some some folk on here cannot differentiate between saying something distasteful but having the right to say it. Its a massive distinction.
December 28, 2008 at 8:26 pm
Gaffer GC
It should come as no suprise that Rev McQuarrie should make such a candid attack on Irish Catholics. These views are deep rooted in orangism and scottish protestantism it somehow makes them feel they have a valid arguement for the vile they spout if they actually believe the slander and accusations they throw at us.
December 28, 2008 at 7:43 pm
finbar offended
andyod you sir must have cloth ears the 66 died has been sung plenty of times.The same celtic fans wearing strips with 66 ha ha on the back.But that is alright its just the big bad proddies they deserve it.
December 28, 2008 at 7:04 pm
andyod
to william ive never heard the 66 song song at celtic games so if you want to make a point dont make up stories
December 28, 2008 at 5:38 pm
Trishb
Efann just want to clarify a point. I in no way condone the treatment Jeanette received last year which was disgraceful. However I am a lifelong Celtic fan and Jeanette does not and never will speak for me and I imagine many other Celtic fans. Jeanette offered her comment and in doing so has naturally elicited the right to reply. Given the tone of Jeanette\’s post it is not surprising that comments have been candid. I do not think any disrespect has been shown and while I do not want to turn this into a \”slanging\” match you may well find that your comment about \”showing her the respect she has earned\” may not \”be a given\” with every individual.
December 28, 2008 at 5:26 pm
william
Is it now a crime to be offended or do you have to be from 5th generation irish descent. I am offended by celtic fans singing songs that support violent republican terrorists. I am offended by celtic fans singing 66 died, should have been more, a slur on the 66 people who died in the Ibrox disaster, men women and children. But it appears that Janette and others within the celtic support like to glorify the murder of men women and children killed by the iRA
December 28, 2008 at 5:19 pm
andyod
i cant understand how someone like the Reverend can make comments about a simple love song in the terms of vile racist bigoted. can then find support from jeanette just because rangers fans tried to get her sacked. so the bold reverend must’ve known that jeanettes job was under threat for making the comments she made. but it didnt stop him making his .
December 28, 2008 at 5:05 pm
efann
I think the last two posts are unnecessarily insulting & unfair to Jeanette Findlay. She went through hell last year because she stood up for Celtic supporters & gets childish insults here in return.
Jeanette has spoken because of her dreadful treatment last year. Disagree with her, if you wish, but at least show her the respect she has earned.
December 28, 2008 at 4:49 pm
Trishb
Jeanette I’m disappointed at the tone of your comment….not your opinion because you are entitled to that. A chaplain no matter his/her religious calling has, in my opinion, no right to embroil themself in the matter this man has. I am extremely proud of the traditions of Glasgow University and generations of my family have been lucky enough to be educated in this great establishment. From what I can see no one has actually said they are going to bombard the Principal on this issue, in fact in my post I stated that I hoped the Principal would ask serious questions of this man. If his employment is called into question then it is because he has used his position as chaplain of Glasgow University to get publicity….he does not speak for the majority there and neither do you.
December 28, 2008 at 4:29 pm
Martin Waters
Well done Phil, as always. the Reverand has to be taken to task for this slander. If this is just ignored or unchallenged, it will be seen as a truth by some.
Jeanette stick to putting your own foot, in your mouth.
Like most Celtic supporters, you do not represent me.
December 28, 2008 at 3:36 pm
Paddy Trainor
Keep up the good work
Phil & to Jeanette away and catch yourself on if it wasnt for the like of Phil here Celtic Fans would be crucified at every turn with no come-back. One\’s thing for sure i know who to turn to if i need help & its not that organisation you think speaks for Celtic Supporters which is quite frankly an ego trip for yourself and your friends
December 28, 2008 at 2:58 pm
Jeanette Findlay
I agree that Stuart McQuarrie’s comment was ridiculous but please don\’t anyone start bombarding Glasgow University with demands for his disciplining. I also work there and have been subject to the same demands from Rangers fans over comments I made in a radio interview last year. As stupid as his comments are, and as justified as people are in calling them stupid, he is still entitled to make them and not have his employment called into question. Lets not lower ourselves to the level of those who attacked me last year.
December 28, 2008 at 1:06 pm
Alan C
Well Oliver Cromwell rebelled against the Crown so go figure rev.
December 28, 2008 at 9:58 am
David
That the Rev McQuarrie hold a position as he does within Glasgow university surely is a cause of concern given his obvious, and worrying, advertised, beliefs
December 28, 2008 at 9:42 am
Trishb
Excellent article once again Phil. It concerns me greatly that the Rev McQuarrie a chaplain at Glasgow University should besmirch the name of this great estabishment and that of Celtic fans with his inane rantings. I am so angered at his totally ridiculous accussations that in his opinion somehow evens up his own personal score in respect of the famine song being rightly pronounced racist. I am also extremely concerend that he has brought the name of Glasgow University into disrepute with his own personal agenda. I sincerely hope that the Principal of this great bastion of education will be asking some serious questions of this man.
December 28, 2008 at 7:47 am