It should also be made clear Aiden McGeady & James McCarthy have represented ROI at youth levels before now, due to the fact that Scotland has some silly rule about not calling up young players that play for their school (or something to that effect). ROI doesn’t, knew these guys qualified, and offered two young guys the opportunity to play international football at a young age. I don’t know any young lad that would turn down that opportunity, and their move to the full international setup could be seen as a natural progression.

Also Ryan Giggs, I could swear I read somewhere his dad was English, mum was Welsh, he represented England at youth level. Then his dad left and he chose Wales out of loyalty to his mum? Could be wrong though

Yes, it is. I am protestant from West of Scotland my wife is Irish catholic. We live in London. Our children went to catholic schools. Although, they are proud of their Scottish and Irish roots, they see themselves English, as did their friends at school. They fail to understand how someone can place their primary alliagence to where one of the persons grand-parents was born.

Anti- irish / anti-catholic attitudes are prevalent all over this country, as can be seen anywhere Celtic play – ask Aiden McGeady / Neil Lennon / Celtic fans in general. Also in places visited by the support in England (eg. Blackburn / London).
That is part of football it is not get Celtic thing. Rangers players playing for internationally teams in Dublin get special abuse. Catholics playing for Rangers appear to receive special treatment from Celtic fans. Attending games in London at players and supporters for types of reason. Unfortunately, that is part of life.
Last year we were sitting outside a café in France, there were 4 Irish women near us, who did not realise we could speak English. They poured out non-stop racial abuse about Eastern Europeans who had move to ROI. Believe me if the grand-child of one of these immigrants had chosen to play for the country of their grand-parents rather than ROI, these women would happily called for the entire family to be strung the whole family up. I am not having a go at Irish saying this, but trying to show to your bigoted mindset that prejudice is not confined to Rangers supporters or the entire Scottish non-catholic population.

Blame Catholic schools – haven’t heard that one for a few days. Only seems to be a problem in this country though. Wonder why that is ???
My two experiences with schools outside West of Scotland have been England and France. In London, the catholic schools although not particulary socially healthy, for example, you can argue dicriminate with pro catholic staff bias, which I do not think would be accepted in any other form of employment. However, it is not the problem as in Scotland, where it resembles something out of America’s deep south pre 1960’s with children being bused aound to avoid contact with the other race. London percentage of catholics is much less, place is more diverse, and children quite often go to catholic primary school then attend non-denominational secondary school or sixth form college. Also, children’s allegiance is to England not another country from where they were born, live and being taught.
I will be interested to see developments in years to come with the possible growth in Muslim schools, it may be viewed that religious schools have to sacrificied to meet changing society.
France, although it is mainly catholic country seemed to have solely non-denominational schools. Seemed to work fine.
“Celtic songs and actions, which are equally as vile as the Famine Song” – name them please………..
This year, I encountered Celtic fans that had been attending pre-season friendlies in London and South East twice this year on trains. One group were fine. Noisy, had been drinking, boisterous but good humoured. The group shouted abuse at everyone. Racially abuse people. Wished to kill all protestants. Murder certain Rangers current and ex-players who happened to be catholic. It is what actually prompted me to reply to post here.
“After all many Celtic fans seem to believe they have more allegiance to Ireland than Scotland”.
What country’s flag is most noted at Rangers Games ? Here’s a clue – it’s not Scotland, and it’s got a wee hand in the middle. Etc.
I condemn them as well. I think indicated that in my original post.
So, all of the above applies to me. If I then for example went to work abroad, instead of here in Scotland, would I be betryaying people like you.
Or would I only be betraying you if I went to work in the Republic of Ireland ????
I actually moved to England for work reasons. My wife is Irish. I would love to have played football for Scotland, not England. My children would love to have played football for England. They would only have chosen Scotland or ROI as last resort, if they felt that they would be good enough to play for England and the other countries offered that opportunity. Their feeling to play a country based country of grandparent would be solely as that of mercenary, with no strong allegiance to that country, rather like the many foreign players with premier league teams. If one of my grand-children said they wish to play for Scotland, I would tell them I was proud of them, but if they were good enough to play for England, that should be their first choice.
Just say it simply that it’s because of the choice of country. Again, no mention of Brian McLean of M’well, who chose N. Ireland………. No condemnation / put downs for the likes of Goram / McCall / Gough. But they’re all great guys, eh ????
Goram and McCall parents I believe were Scots. They mainly played for Scottish teams. I doubt if they would have been called up by England. Gough interesting one, I understand his parents were Scottish and Swedish, born in Sweden. Lived as child in South Africa, but his career was mainly with Scots teams. However, I assume he experienced segregated schooling in SA, but I did play for teams there to experience the views of supporters. Mclean, now there is a true merceracy. Played under-17 for Scotland, I guess figured out he was not good enough, then found a tenouous NI connection.
I do not think that they are particulary great guys. But apart from possibly Gough, their parents did not choose segregated schools for them, excluding themselves much of their fellow countrymen before choosing to play for another country. In fact I feel if you go to a school that is based on excluding much of your fellow countrymen, you are under more responsibility to show your choice of international team is not based on a similar prejudice and bigotary to your fellow countrymen.
Discussing McGeady and the Famine Song with friends English, Irish and Scots. The Famine Song was totally condemned. McGeady and family were also not thought much of. Scotland and ROI were thought of similar in terms of football standing, support and opportunities presented. The English discussed players born in England who played for other countries, these included Gough, McCall and Irish players some who used the grandparent connection. None of these were felt as any great loss as they would not have had many if any games with England. Players who went back to grandparents were viewed as English players taking advantage of FIFA loophole to play international football for another country, basically mercenaries. They would be shocked if a young player of calibre, such as, Theo Walcott chose to play for another country on basis of a grandfather, they would be shocked and class him as a traitor. He would deserve all stick that he might expect from other supporters when playing for Arsenal. The only player my English friends considered a loss was Ryan Giggs, but they felt both his parents were Welsh and his choice was justified. However, if it was Ryan Gigg’s child and he was good enough to play for England, they would be very upset if he chose Wales. My Irish friends while happy to gain a good young player do not have much respect for McGeady or his family. They think them a bit sick just like the famine song.
This week there was an historic event where Americans elected a black African president. Scotland is still in the dark ages is comparison, but segregated schools ended in the States decades ago. Anyway, I have said enough on subject. Denboy, I will leave to life with your fellow bigots who form part of the Rangers and Celtic support. Have a good life.

“Celtic songs and actions, which are equally as vile as the Famine Song” – name them please………..

“After all many Celtic fans seem to believe they have more allegiance to Ireland than Scotland”.
What country’s flag is most noted at Rangers Games ? Here’s a clue – it’s not Scotland, and it’s got a wee hand in the middle.

Tyhe people who go out in the marching season with their sashes – are they showing allegiance to something Scottish ?
Are you only concerned with pointing out negative Celtic stories ?
Again, I wonder why that is ????

“Remember these young players were born, live, went to school, learned their football in Scotland. Their fellow countrymen wish to be proud of them and wanted them to have chosen to play for Scotland. They feel betrayed, which is reflected in some of the words of the Famine Song”.

So, all of the above applies to me. If I then for example went to work abroad, instead of here in Scotland, would I be betryaying people like you.
Or would I only be betraying you if I went to work in the Republic of Ireland ????

Just say it simply that it’s because of the choice of country.
Again, no mention of Brian McLean of M’well, who chose N. Ireland……….
No condemnation / put downs for the likes of Goram / McCall / Gough. But they’re all great guys, eh ????

“your great great grandmother did not have this freedom, as unless the children were brought up catholic, she would have been excommunicated from the church”.

I’m not 100% sure of your facts here, but it did give you another opportunity to put the boot in to Catholics in general.

All the anti-racist organisations – including Scotland’s own SRTRC (5 / 6 months later !) have said the famine song is RACIST.
The main football club whose supporters belt out this song have not. Once again, we wait and wonder why not ????…………..

Like many Scots I wish to see an end to bigotry from both religious sides within my country. I believe that we are Scots belong the one nation and united but remaining proud of our different heritages. Unfortunately, we have some recent instances where young Scottish football players choosing to play for the Republic of Ireland rather because Scotland because they had an Irish grandparent. Fair enough, they had freedom to choose, but it does not earn them the respect of their fellow non-catholic Scots, indeed it goes along to increase suspicion of the Catholic Church. Remember these young players were born, live, went to school, learned their football in Scotland. Their fellow countrymen wish to be proud of them and wanted them to have chosen to play for Scotland. They feel betrayed, which is reflected in some of the words of the Famine Song.

When fellow Scots ask themselves why these players did not choose to play for Scotland, they look at the influence of the Catholic church with it’s determination to maintain segregated schooling. The majority of Scots felt this divides the country and is the root cause of the bigotry, but felt it was freedom Catholics were entitled to as fellow Scots. However, now we have Scots educated in these schools segrated by choice from their fellow Scots and then refusing to play internationally with their fellow Scots. Is this because they feel the Scots team is racially impure because it contains protestants? Is their decision not to represent Scotland based on a form of racism?

In South Africa the whites wished to maintain separate development from their black countrymen, separate schools, they would not play sport in same teams as their black countrymen. It was called Apartheid, and condemned by the world. Are Catholics in effect practising this in Scotland? By getting involved in rivalry between Rangers and Celtic, Is the Irish government and politicians supporting a form of Apartheid?

Denboy – Your great great grandparents married because they both loved each other. Your great great grand father could marry and continue to practice his religion. However, your great great grandmother did not have this freedom, as unless the children were brought up catholic, she would have been excommunicated from the church. Please remember this and show respect to your ancestor and his religion.